War Without End: Harley-Davidson Versus Indian

Harley-Davidson Road Glide Special nose to nose with Indian Dark Horse
Modified Image via MotorBikeWriter
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For almost as long as motorcycles themselves have existed, two American companies have waged a silent battle that we only truly hear when the V-twins that power their bikes fire up. Both companies started making their V-twin bikes in 1903, and were the only two major American manufacturers to survive two World Wars, the Great Depression, and every economic crisis the USA has weathered since. We are, of course, talking about Harley-Davidson and Indian Motorcycles.

The two companies are fierce rivals, and their riders and fans are just as passionate. Walking into a Harley-Davidson bike meeting and mentioning “the other brand” will get you some very unpleasant looks and may even have you being asked to leave, while bringing up a Harley-Davidson at an Indian Motorcycles rally in any other terms other than “I left them in my dust” will garner you many of the same looks. We’re not saying that civil discourse is impossible, it’s just that when someone is a fan of either brand, they are really passionate about it.

There has to be some reason, some evidence out there that can objectively point to why the two American manufacturers have such steadfast enthusiasts. That is the purpose of this article: to investigate, in as balanced a way possible, what really drives the battle between the two American giants.

Why Each Company Has Their Own Die-Hard Fans

To understand where the passion on either side comes from, we first must look back at the early 20th century. Both Harley-Davidson and Indian modeled their first motorcycles after the bicycles that had been used to start the entire motorcycle movement, albeit with stiffer metals and bigger tires to be able to absorb the bumps and ruts of 1900’s roads. This was all well and good, and both companies respected each other’s successes, but their paths diverged just two years after they started production.

In 1905, Indian Motorcycles built its very first V-twin factory race bike. For the better part of the next decade, until World War I, Indians were branded as “America’s fastest motorcycles,” and backed up that claim with multiple race wins in all styles of competition, as well as setting multiple speed records. This led to the more adventurous early riders to gravitate towards Indians as the more exciting, potentially more dangerous motorcycle.

Bert Munro’s 1920 Indian Motorcycle in museum
Bert Munro’s 1920 Indian Motorcycle that set a world land speed record at 183.59 MPH for the under-1,000cc class at the Bonneville Salt Flats. Image via Wikimedia Commons

Meanwhile, in 1905, Harley-Davidson was still being run out of the backyard machine shop of Henry Melk, friend to both William Harvey and Arthur Davidson. Through some very suave marketing, placing ads in journals such as Automobile and Cycle Trade, they started to move more and more motorcycles, to the point that the first dealership opened, run by Carl H. Lang in Chicago. This led to a small boost in sales, and with the money earned, plus some investment from interested parties, the first Harley-Davidson factory opened in 1906 on Chestnut Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

1920 Harley-Davidson Model J Twin
A 1920 Harley-Davidson Model J Twin, a motorcycle meant for a more “refined” rider than those “unrefined” Indian devotees. Image via Mecum Auctions

Both companies doubled down on their respective angles throughout much of the early 20th century, with Harley-Davidson building more comfortable, more utilitarian motorcycles that were marketed to the more affluent customer, while Indian focused on speed, power, and the fact that their motorcycles were the preferred race bikes for things such as flat-track events. Through World War I, the Great Depression, and World War II, both companies were able to provide the US government with military bikes, and introduced more affordable models in the inter-war period for those down on their luck.

This is, realistically, what drives the enthusiasts today for each brand.

The Harley-Davidson fanbase is comprised mostly of those that are seeking more comfort and longer-distance rides. It’s also worth noting that a Harley, despite all the brand’s controversies, financial difficulties, and seeming to change their CEO every three months, is still seen as a status symbol—a sign of prestige and affluence. Harley also benefited from cultural appreciation, being the bike of choice for the sudden counter-culture movement in the 60s and 70s, with movies like Easy Rider cementing their image of rebellious but prestigious glamor.

The Indian fanbase, on the other hand, is a much younger group, usually in their 30s and 40s, who are looking less for a status symbol and more for a good, powerful, reliable American-made motorcycle that has serious grunt down low. This is where the Indian motorcycles of today shine, as they are discreet beasts with a ton of torque and not as much “badge premium” (which Harleys can suffer from).

Harley-Davidson and Indian motorcycles parked near each other at Sturgis
Literally the only event where you can find Indians and Harleys parked close to each other, at Sturgis Bike Week. Image via Wikimedia Commons

Both groups are, in their own way, completely on the point with their arguments. Yes, Harley-Davidson did more for the two World Wars than Indian did, but they both sent bikes for the troops to use. Indian held, and still does in some cases, many more speed records, and is still the preferred base motorcycle for anyone currently looking to attempt a record on a lightly modified American machine.

In the fight to be called “America’s motorcycle company,” until 2011, it would have honestly been completely acceptable to pin that badge on Harley-Davidson. Since 2011, however, Indian has resumed the battle and are hitting all the targets set, so the war has resumed.

Which Company Objectively Makes the Better Bike?

We realize and accept that this is a very touchy subject, which is why we are not going to focus on anything but the specifications. This is very much an “on paper” comparison, using numbers that don’t care if one bike or the other looks better, or has more spirit and passion rumbling through its handlebars.

The first category to look at is the standard cruiser. Harley-Davidson brings the Forty-Eight forward, while Indian brings one of their most popular models, the Scout, to the battlefield. With roughly the same sized engines, 73 ci in the Forty-Eight and 69 ci in the Scout, and with just about the same full wet weight, 556 lbs for the Forty-Eight and 561 lbs for the Scout, these are about as evenly matched as any two bikes out there.

2022 Indian Scout
2022 Indian Scout. Image from webBikeWorld

What is surprising, then, is that the Indian Scout ends up being significantly more powerful than the Forty-Eight. Even though the difference in displacement is only 4 cubic inches, the Scout’s powerplant produces 100 HP and 72 lb-ft of torque. By comparison, the Evolution engine in the Forty-Eight produces 66 HP and 70 lb-ft.

2022 Harley-Davidson Forty-Eight
2022 Harley-Davidson Forty-Eight. Image from webBikeWorld

Those 34 HP in difference are where, objectively, the Indian Scout comes off as the preferred bike, especially when the weight of each bike is 5 lbs apart. However, that is countered by the base price of each model, as the Forty-Eight comes in at $12,299 compared to the Scout at $13,240. If you, as a rider, want those extra 34 HP, at the very least you are paying $950 for them, or just under $28 per HP.

This speaks to Indian’s historical aim to produce a faster, more powerful bike, despite both motorcycles being firmly entrenched in the Cruiser segment. The Scout is more powerful, but you do have to open the wallet to get that power.

The next category to investigate is where Harley-Davidson has really focused their attention over the past few decades: the Touring motorcycle. For this, let us take the bikes that are the most similar from each brand, namely the Harley-Davidson Road King, and Indian Super Chief.

2022 Harley-Davidson Road King
2022 Harley-Davidson Road King. Image via webBikeWorld

These bikes are nearly identical in their engine sizes, weight, and looks, with the tall touring windscreen and saddlebags at the rear. The Road King brings a 107 ci Milwaukee-Eight V-twin, in a bike weighing 828 lbs fully wet. The Super Chief brings one more ci, at 108 ci for its Thunderstroke V-Twin, and has a wet weight of 740 lbs.

2022 Indian Super Chief
2022 Indian Super Chief. Image from webBikeWorld

The two are exactly $930 apart, with the Road King this time taking the spot of being more expensive at $19,929 compared to the Super Chief at $18,999. The surprise of the spec sheets, however, comes in that the Road King produces 111 lb-ft of torque, compared to the Super Chief at 108 lb-ft.

This one requires some math to be completely objective, requiring us to look at the amount of torque provided compared to the wet weight of the motorcycle. The Road King provides 1 lb-ft of torque for every 7.5 lbs of motorcycle, while the Super Chief provides 1 lb-ft of torque for every 6.9 lbs of motorcycle. The Indian, objectively, is the more powerful motorcycle, but 9.6 ounces per 1 lb-ft of torque is literally the weight of a US cup of water, so it is fair to call this one a draw.

It is much the same across all the comparable models, with the exception that Indian also provides a sport-naked motorcycle in the FTR 1200, and Harley-Davidson provides an adventure bike in the Pan-American. Apples-to-apples, Indian is either majorly or minorly more powerful than the equivalent Harley-Davidson, but, as stated at the start of this article, the fanbase for each side is extremely subjective.

The Future: Will Peace Ever Be Achieved?

On the face of it, that is an extremely complicated question. Both companies have had multiple highs and extreme lows in their history. Indian changed hands like a hot potato, while Harley-Davidson lost its way through much of the 80s, 90s, and 2000s as they simply could not decide where to focus their attention.

Both companies are much more on the straight and narrow now, with Harley-Davidson realizing that its target audience needs to be younger and taking a very positive attitude towards embracing electrification with the LiveWire brand. Indian, since 2011, has been owned by Polaris Inc, well known for their off-road, snow, and watercraft vehicles, which have a proven track record of reliability and value-for-money.

2022 Harley-Davidson Livewire One
2022 Harley-Davidson Livewire One. Image from webBikeWorld

We honestly think that once electric bikes become much more of a standard thing, likely by 2030 or thereabouts, the war will start a new chapter. What could be an olive branch, however, is what recently happened this year between the Big Four Japanese brands when they agreed to share swappable battery technology with each other for their scooters and light motorcycles. With battery technology proceeding at a relatively breakneck pace right now, if the two could sit down at the negotiating table and hammer out a shared charging or battery swap agreement, that could be the first step to peace.

Then again, with fans as enthusiastic as either side has, there will always be some form of rivalry. That is why the war between Harley-Davidson and Indian Motorcycles is truly one without end.

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  1. You forgot to add the paragraph about Indian copying off of Harley Davidson after their 40yr hiatus

  2. THX for this “evaluated summary” (*) – missing INDIAN’s awesome “CHALLENGER” and “PURSUIT” a bit…)

    Riding “custom / racing HD’s since nearly 40 years I am coming to the age of buying a comfortable “big V2 out of fabric” for the 1st.time of my life…;-))

    It seems to be an INDIAN CHALLENGER what offers more vale/performance/extras included than HD’s super expensive CVO-versions – THAT’S IT…!!!

    Sorry HD BROS…🦅🙏☠️

    CHEERS “CPT.AAA”

    PS: I am waiting for my preordered LIFEWIRE “S2” as well – BIG respect for this revolutionary concept…👍🏁✌️

    (*) real “1%” bikers NOT define themselfs by “rented HD’s” – sorry to day…🙈🙉🙊

  3. Indian Motocycle began in 1901, not 1903, and is this advertised as “America’s First Motorcycle.”

  4. They aren’t true competitors rt now. I’m an Indian guy. I have a cpl older Harleys but I can’t see myself ever buying a new one. I just don’t like what the company has become but anyway… They aren’t comparable. Indian doesn’t have sales in Harleys league. Maybe one day they will again. I wish they never shut down victory but I understand why they did…. I wish they would have kept making bikes as something like “Victory by Indian”, the vic motors were phenomenal. The only recent bike they made with the intent of being a Harley competitor is the chief. Everyone acts like the challenger was targeted at the road glide but it wasn’t. The target was the gold wing and the like.
    I love my Indian but Indian and Harley aren’t competitors rt now, maybe they will be again one day but they are in separate leagues rt now.

  5. I will always be a indian owner. Because they are truly americas first motorcycle and that started in 1901.I. STILL LIKE HARLEYS. BUT THATS WHERE IT IS.😉☺️

  6. I like both bikes. I have 2017 Harley road glide and a 2017 roadmaster. I can say the roadmaster is a much more comfortable bike with much more storage room and the stereo system is a better sound and louder. The windshield is adjustable with a lot more leg room. I will not get rid of either bike but I will trade in on newer models of each

  7. I get so sick of people acting like little children on the play ground. My dad is smarter, bigger, better looking than your dad. My dad can beat up your dad. Just ridiculous for “Alleged” adults. I see the same crap in other areas like Ford vs Chevy Vs Dodge. I’ve been riding for Almost 59 years and I have never understood the, My Bike is Best & Your Bike is Crap mentality. Indian isn’t “Copying” HD. They Both are just Playing To The Market. It’s a Money thing for them both. They build what they think the buying public wants to spend their money on. Look at BMW with their 18 models. I don’t understand BMW doing that Until I stop and realize People want that “Style” of motorcycle & then it becomes clearer. Personally I would not spend My money on a BMW 18 because I have a preconceived idea of what I think BMW should be. But I’m not going to be so arrogant as to say BMW is a piece of junk because It Is Not. If you think that is not the case just look at the Auto industry how they are all moving to making SUV’s. They are not Copying they are playing to the market because right now people want a SUV rather than a Sedan. That’s just a fact. Again, Personally I Like BOTH Indian & HD but for different reasons. They both make excellent motorcycles. And unlike the OLD DAYS when I could walk into Any HD dealer and see oil pans sitting under their Brand New Bikes to catch the oil that was leaking, that is no longer that case. They have come Way Past those days. And if you are one who still holds on to those archaic ideas, you are Uneducated and Ignorant of Current facts. I think they make excellent bikes now and the fact is they, in different areas, are Both superior to the other is Some ways but in the end it is the pinnacle of conceit, ignorance of facts and foolishness to start running down the other, and Mostly without even giving the other a try. And IF after the try you may still prefer this over that & that’s great, excellent for you. That’s what we should do. Try both and decide which we like best. But that alone does Not mean the other is worthless. I definitely have my favorite but I’m not going to be the Uneducated & Uninformed type to call the other a POS. There was a time when I Thought my Gold-Wing was the best thing since sliced bread. But now with SO Many great bikes out there I’ve moved on to another idea of what I want next. Of course, as always, Your Mileage May Vary. Ride safely.