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Police have strange interpretation of covert

Police using covert TruCAM laser speed camera
Police using covert TruCAM laser speed camera

It appears that Queensland Police are using covert hand-held speed cameras in cars with tinted windows seemingly against their own speed camera policy.

These images of a Holden station wagon with tinted windows and an officer using a hand-held radar gun attached to a camera recording device was snapped on Westlake Drive, in Brisbane’s west today.

While there is no longer any requirement for speed camera detection signs, the Queensland police website clearly states: “It is not the policy of the Queensland Police Service to deliberately conceal speed cameras.”

speed cameras covert
Queensland Police no longer need to use this sign

Not covert, say police

A Queensland Police Media spokesman says the speed detection operation photographed is  “not concealment or deliberate”.

“That’s an officer using a stock standard unmarked police vehicle.”

The officer is using a hand-held TruCAM laser digital camera to record speeding offences.

There is no intervention if he catches someone speeding. The first the motorist would know about a speeding offence would be in two weeks when they receive an infringement notice.

The media spokesman says they often receive complaints about officers trying to conceal themselves by leaning against a tree or post to steady a radar device.

He says this case is the same.

“Police can use whatever police vehicles are available,” the media spokesman says.

“It’s not covert, just an unmarked vehicle.”

However, the vehicle has tinted windows and there is no way any motorist would know it was a police vehicle or that an officer was inside until they approached the vehicle.

This incident may spark debate over the lack of speed deterrence in covert operations while others will argue “if you’re not speeding, you have nothing to worry about”.

Police using covert TruCAM laser speed camera
Police using TruCAM laser speed camera in an unmarked car with tinted windows

It appears that, in this case, police consider that is not covert or “deliberately” concealing a speed camera.

It’s a strange interpretation of their own rules.

  1. The Trucam website says the Trucam will
    “quickly and easily provide printed evidence to the violator at the time of the infraction.”
    “Law enforcement operators now have a quick and easy way to provide printed evidence to the violator at the time of the infraction.”

    Police can easily issue an automatically printed ticket on the spot.
    So why aren’t they doing that?
    Because when you get the ticket 2 weeks later in the mail, you don’t remember the exact circumstances & are unable to defend yourself.
    In other words, your own evidence in your favour has been destroyed by the passage of time.

    Police should not be deliberately avoiding collecting evidence.
    Why aren’t we allowed to defend ourselves?

    This isn’t just concealing a speed camera, it’s concealing evidence in your favour.

  2. When they say “It’s not about the money”.. you can bet.. it’s about the money. If drivers/riders really are driving dangerously, then pull them up. write them up and hopefully they will slow down. This is just BS. It is like letting your dog chew up your slippers and then smacking him with a rolled up newspaper two weeks later.

    Behold.. The nanny State on steroids!

    1. There is actually, – a big problem. If you are absolutely determined to stay below the limit all the time, you will spend a great deal of time gazing at your speedo.

      Ok, so you say, cruise control fixes that. Bad news I’m afraid. Travelling on the roads of the inland on cruise control is GUARANTEED to put you to sleep.

      Either way, you will end up as, not a speed statistic, but a ‘fatigue’ statistic.

      1. Yeah, play by the rules. What planet are you on?

        So many people spend their time staring at the speedo they can’t make informed decisions about what is happening around them.

        Keep focussing on people speeding as a major contributor to crashes, watch the money from fines come in, and the carnage will continue. Head in the sand approach.

        This is covert. The police spokesman is having a lend of you Mark, and I wonder if it would stand up in court.

        It’s all about the money, money…

  3. Respect for the law enforcement officers takes another dive.

    In Arizona a few years ago, a speed camera operator was shot. We saw similar happen at Moree when an environmental officer pushed an old farmer to breaking point. Disaster. People have had enough of being treated with so much rancour.

    The speeders they need to catch are the idiots who really go crazy. A ticket in the mail two weeks later is not much deterrent for them. Meanwhile the people who are no danger to themselves or others pay the price.

    The pity of it is that the speed police are looking in the wrong place. Doing more of the same thing, ie, covert cameras, and expecting a different result is a definition of madness.

    1. So you think the shit kicker in the speed camera actually has any say in what he does or where he is positioned or what speeds get tickets? The copper in the camera is gonna be pretty low down the chain and probably has no choice but to do his or her job. Yeah maybe some enjoy it but it must be pretty boring work. They probably just do as they are told to get paid. Like anyone else at the bottom of the corporate ladder.

  4. Police seem to have their own vocabulary – but it does make sense if you approach it from a certain point of view(not neccessarily your own).

    In this case it is a regular unmarked police car, with regular tinted windows, with no extra camouflage or springloaded panels hiding cameras, so is therefore not “covert”.

    But… TRUCam approved for use in this way? I thought there was some problem with TRUCam photos being used for after-the-fact infringement notices…………

  5. Can the police tell us, does TruCam or any other company make money from fines handed out ?

      1. They don’t get money directly, per fine, like a commission. However, if they are effective at fining many vehicles, the Government will get more money and is more likely to re-contract with them for more cameras.

  6. Latest one I have seen, is an unmarked dual cab ute with canopy, (with camera unit in the back) pulled off to the left side of the road with the left indicator on so it looks like it is a tradie who has just pulled over to talk on his phone. Again I’m sure it’s not covert.

  7. One thing I learnt very quickly in Victoria many years ago was…. NEVER speed past a lone car parked on the side of a road, highway or byway.

  8. 49,578 Speeding fines issues in 2016 in Queensland which is around 10 million dollars in revenue.

    With 11,000 Queensland police officers to pay they need a lot more fines in 2017 to pay their wages to sit in their air conditioned cars and fine a couple of motorists doing 68km/h in a recently reduced 60kph speed zone.

    TAC propaganda “In 2012, Victoria recorded a total of 282 deaths on the road, with speed a major factor in many crashes.” TAC also believe and spread propaganda around reducing all speed limits to less than 60kph as any faster and we’ll all hit and kill anything in our path. (see Speed statistics TAC

    It’s a great money making scheme, the propaganda backs up the changes and our mentally challenged politicians just see the benefits of the money from putting new/more beneficial programs in place.

  9. I thought very dark tint on front windows of a vehicle was against the law!
    I see them regularly and it makes it impossible to see if the driver is actually looking in your direction at an intersection, so I have to take extra precautions just in case the driver isn’t looking my way. The photo seems to show law breaking tint on this non-covert activity.
    I won’t comment on the activity itself as both side of the argument know the real story.

  10. Has anyone noticed the modern day phenonema where in a single direction lane, persons in the front vehicle sits under the speed limit, often for many km’s & when the single lanes becomes two lanes; a passing lane, suddenly the previously slower travelling vehicle speeds up to the designated speed zone? Making it so that the vehicle behind is required to speed up to overtake? And if for whatever reason, you are last in a long forming queue behind said vehicle & don’t manage to get past, miraculously that same vehicle slows down to at least 5 below again? Where are the police you may ponder? Well as opportunity knocks, they are in an unmarked duel cab tucked right in nicely, covertly even, on the edge of the oncoming traffic side white line facing your direction rubbing their mits together as you pass going over the designated speed limit. This feeding off stupidity is unjust.

    1. Yep. I’ve noticed of late the clowns that speed up in the left hand lanes of an overtaking lane making it harder to go past them … before slowing down to what they were doing before it all. Been happening more and more around my neck of the woods. I reckon some people have miserable lives and try to get a ‘win’ against strangers to try and convince themselves they are worth something.

  11. They make the rules and they break the rules. Government (and their various departments) in this whole country are now just a form of Organised Crime.

  12. OMG its so annoying how the law says I can’t drive above this speed limit, and that if I drive above it I will get fined, and then when I do drive above the speed limit that they told me I will get fined for doing, I GET FINED?!?! OMG IT SUCKKKSS ITS SO UNFAIRRR HOW WHEN I BREAK RULES I GET PUNISHED!! It would be so much better if the cars were marked so I could speed everywhere else but then slow down in front of the speed cameras so I don’t get caught and could keep speeding
    I don’t speed. I don’t get tickets. I don’t get fines. PROBLEM SOLVED

    1. So Smartarse, you’re the guy that goes 10km/h under the speed limit and gives everyone a reason to overtake you and then you probably speed up so then we are going over the speed limit to get in front of you.

      I hardly feel it’s fair and just to be booked going 5km/h over the limit and that is what’s happening. It just makes everyone a speedo watcher and not concentrating on what’s going on around you.

      It must be nice to be such a perfect driver like you.

  13. I’m sure tinted windscreens are illegal in QLD. I asked for mine to be done at Tint-a-car a few years ago and they said “no way”. How does one carry out a citizens arrest!

    1. Tinted windscreens are not legal. Having other windows tinted is legal, but there is a limit – I’m pretty sure it’s in the vehicle mods doco somewhere. You might be allowed a small area at the top of the windscreen to reduce sun glare…..

      In the photos it looks like the side windows have a quite dark tint on them, but the windscreen is untinted.

  14. $10 says the majority of you have received a speed camera ticket and haven’t been adult enough to admit you stuffed up. You actually get away with traffic offences far more often than you’re caught. Trying to justify your oh so apparent knowledge of the law make you look like tossers.

    Grow up and take responsibility for your stuff ups, even cops get tickets.

      1. Steve’s post confirms that its all about getting caught, or not, – not about road safety.

        A current RMS radio ad says that; “if he had KNOWN there was a speed camera ahead, he would have slowed down, and not crashed..”

        What does that say about secret cameras? Explain that one.

        1. Fact is, Police can’t be everywhere all the time, hence the message of anywhere anytime.

          If motorists would simply consider others when driving/riding life would be easier. Assuming all of us here rude bikes, I think we all know what it’s like to have drivers not see us or, if they do, perhaps they don’t care. That being said, we know common sense is hard to find these days.

          My point is this, we are human, we make mistakes. Own these mistakes and stop blaming others.

          1. How could you not take responsibility for a speed cam ticket? It was ‘you’ in the pic right? I don’t think many are really saying the equipment is dodgy, rather saying its the motivation and employment that is BS.

            I wear my fines and I’m grateful for what I’ve not been caught for.

            But as I’ve said it before, keep focussing on speed enforcement and continue to watch carnage. It’s a crap roundabout that makes money and gives some officials a mistaken belief they are doing everything they can.

  15. I am going for my second comment on this topic.. Is the idea to catch people who speed, stop them at the time, fine them and ask them to slow down and perhaps avoid an accident?

    Or it it to simply catch lots of people speeding, let them continue on their way driving over the limit.. possibly on their way to an accdient and send them bills in the mail.. long after the event?

    To me it sounds like the latter and is driven by a need for cash for cash strapped governments and dressed u pas road safety.

  16. When a few people break a law, they wear the consequences. But when thousands do, – its the law that needs adjusting.

    When just a few are booked for speeding on a long weekend, I’ll stop complaining. But when thousands are booked, the law is plainly wrong and I will fight like hell to right that wrong.

  17. Camera tickets work because we let them.
    If everyone who got one took it to court, to a hearing with a legitimate list of questions to ask in the hearing, say enough to take half a day of court time, you would still loose and be fined. But if absolutely everyone who got a camera ticked did it, and insisted on their day in court, the court system would collapse under the load. Your hearing date would be years in the future, as would all other court matters.
    And governments would need to find another cash cow.

  18. Molotov cocktails fix a lot of things,
    One a day at any vehicle that looks sus!!
    gets burnt.
    they will take them of the road real quick.
    Also the vehicles on the side of the road are contracted out to the SRD, not police at all.
    And I thought that police can only fine you??
    We are being ripped off.
    Please do not rob as the Govt does not like competition.

  19. Try not speeding, then it doesn’t matter what the fuck they do. Pull your f**king heads in!

  20. Speed limits are set by middle aged donkeys in people movers
    for middle aged donkeys in people movers.

    1. Controllable Speed compared to reckless drivnig is relative to the vehicle being operated. A motorcycle can not possible be driven in a reckless manor at speed. A motorcycle needs to be considered for its own laws. A motorcycle needs to be ridden clear of cages and trucks. Bikes need to be in the clear part of the fast lane and passing so they can be seen. Handling a motorcycle just over the speed of a car and truck is THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR SAFETY.

  21. It’s time the government admitted to the revenue raising with the slogan
    “Voluntary Tax Contributions welcome”
    They should advertise the fact it’s a voluntary tax and you don’t have to contribute. – Don’t speed / drink / drug etc.. dont pay.. It’s not difficult really.

    1. GArbage, this is straight out revenue raising. Some people don’t intend to speed and get caught out unwillingly. Whether it be unclear signage, genuine mistake or other non threatening issue. Without intervention or at least a warning sign, this police officer is allowing the offence to continue. In fact, why is a police officer doing this? Laziness??? A public servant could do this with the police back doing what they should be. What if the speeder unwittingly continues on and crashes because they were unaware? What about if the motorist is speeding because they are drunk. No intervention is party to the offence. Omitting to take action at the time to stop or prevent the continuation of an offence.

      Cameras are supposedly set up at hot spots, they should have a warning sign as a deterrent to honest people or an indicator to recheck your speed or at least you know they are out there. Hiding, with no sign or intervention does nothing but raise revenue. There is no deterrent, no intervention for other offences and no stopping the offence at the time. Garbage!

      1. I don’t have a problem with being pulled up, but I do have a problem with letter-of-the-law-and-common-sense-can-go-jump, – approach. As for cameras in hot spots, ha! Some may be, but the statement is just not true, simple.

        The downside of this “gotcha” approach by the authorities is a dearth of respect for law enforcement. It contributes to the breakdown of law and order ultimately, because it puts the law-abiding good citizens off-side. And without them onside, policing is near impossible.

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